Comments on: The hinternet, the internet we’re missing http://www.jonbounds.co.uk/blog/449/the-hinternet-the-internet-were-missing/ Social media, consultancy, training and advice from a flâneur of the internets. Blogger, writer, broadcaster and runner of Birmingham: It's Not Shit. Sun, 14 Mar 2010 13:38:02 +0100 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Act now to save the hinternet - jon bounds http://www.jonbounds.co.uk/blog/449/the-hinternet-the-internet-were-missing/comment-page-1/#comment-1068 Act now to save the hinternet - jon bounds Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:07:43 +0000 http://www.jonbounds.co.uk/?p=449#comment-1068 [...] been worried for a while about the hinternet (the outlands of the web that are increasingly link-poor due to not being “social”), [...] [...] been worried for a while about the hinternet (the outlands of the web that are increasingly link-poor due to not being “social”), [...]

]]> By: Mission Creep | Neil Williams » Blog Archive » Look what I found: 23 November to 26 November http://www.jonbounds.co.uk/blog/449/the-hinternet-the-internet-were-missing/comment-page-1/#comment-723 Mission Creep | Neil Williams » Blog Archive » Look what I found: 23 November to 26 November Thu, 27 Nov 2008 19:07:16 +0000 http://www.jonbounds.co.uk/?p=449#comment-723 [...] The hinternet, the internet we’re missing - Jon Bounds deserves much kudos for this fantastic coinage: the hinternet, those corners of the web running on old technology and missing out on the new inter-connectedness. [...] [...] The hinternet, the internet we’re missing – Jon Bounds deserves much kudos for this fantastic coinage: the hinternet, those corners of the web running on old technology and missing out on the new inter-connectedness. [...]

]]> By: Nick Booth http://www.jonbounds.co.uk/blog/449/the-hinternet-the-internet-were-missing/comment-page-1/#comment-715 Nick Booth Mon, 17 Nov 2008 19:48:26 +0000 http://www.jonbounds.co.uk/?p=449#comment-715 I agree that linking helps, it's something we are doing over at http://www.birminghamconservationtrust.org . The tricky part is that many of these sites have been lovingly made, with enthusiast lavishing loads of time on platforms that don't communicate well. I myself am wondering how to pluck up the courage amongst Birmingham's heritage types to encourage them to shift over to the social web. Perhaps I need a meet first? I agree that linking helps, it’s something we are doing over at http://www.birminghamconservationtrust.org . The tricky part is that many of these sites have been lovingly made, with enthusiast lavishing loads of time on platforms that don’t communicate well. I myself am wondering how to pluck up the courage amongst Birmingham’s heritage types to encourage them to shift over to the social web.

Perhaps I need a meet first?

]]> By: Jon Bounds http://www.jonbounds.co.uk/blog/449/the-hinternet-the-internet-were-missing/comment-page-1/#comment-714 Jon Bounds Sun, 16 Nov 2008 10:28:25 +0000 http://www.jonbounds.co.uk/?p=449#comment-714 @D'log isn't it the case if something " _seem_[s] as if they’re getting covered up and ignored?" then they are ? I don't have web statistics (an inexact science anyway) for any "hinterweb" sites, but I would be surprised if the increase in thier traffic matched the increase in general web usage. The problems arise as you don't know this stuff is out there — take the local history example ' A History of BIRMINGHAM Places & Placenames . . . from A to Y'. I've been looking at and searching for information on Birmingham for ten years at least, but the first time I saw this site was when the author emailed me to tell me he was using one of my CC licensed Flickr photos. No matter how good I am at searching, if I'm not looking exactly for it I won't find it. Those of us who use the web a lot, and may possibly be attracted to use different search methods have a bit of a responsibility here to make sure this content isn't lost. I'm not sure linking is enough, although it's a start. Dave's example is a good one, but it also illustrates the problem — the link that worked now already needs updating. And if it wasn't for him going back to check we wouldn't know. This is an issue that's been bothering me for a while. Gary O'Brien runs a website for <a href="http://www.geocities.com/goosemoorlane/" rel="nofollow">Goosemore Lane in Erdington</a>, it's old fashioned looking but info dense. But the only place I can find it is searching the birminghamitsnotshit.co.uk archive. Similarly I found <a href="http://iloveyorkroad.com/" rel="nofollow">iloveyorkroad.com</a> (King's Heath) not by a link, but from seeing a sign in a shop window. I'm not necessarily looking for a technical solution (tho' one is always welcome), but if we could somehow translate the effort shown by people like Gary into something social we could be doing some good. @D’log isn’t it the case if something ” _seem_[s] as if they’re getting covered up and ignored?” then they are ? I don’t have web statistics (an inexact science anyway) for any “hinterweb” sites, but I would be surprised if the increase in thier traffic matched the increase in general web usage.

The problems arise as you don’t know this stuff is out there — take the local history example ‘ A History of BIRMINGHAM Places & Placenames . . . from A to Y’. I’ve been looking at and searching for information on Birmingham for ten years at least, but the first time I saw this site was when the author emailed me to tell me he was using one of my CC licensed Flickr photos. No matter how good I am at searching, if I’m not looking exactly for it I won’t find it.

Those of us who use the web a lot, and may possibly be attracted to use different search methods have a bit of a responsibility here to make sure this content isn’t lost. I’m not sure linking is enough, although it’s a start.

Dave’s example is a good one, but it also illustrates the problem — the link that worked now already needs updating. And if it wasn’t for him going back to check we wouldn’t know.

This is an issue that’s been bothering me for a while. Gary O’Brien runs a website for Goosemore Lane in Erdington, it’s old fashioned looking but info dense. But the only place I can find it is searching the birminghamitsnotshit.co.uk archive. Similarly I found iloveyorkroad.com (King’s Heath) not by a link, but from seeing a sign in a shop window.

I’m not necessarily looking for a technical solution (tho’ one is always welcome), but if we could somehow translate the effort shown by people like Gary into something social we could be doing some good.

]]> By: D'log http://www.jonbounds.co.uk/blog/449/the-hinternet-the-internet-were-missing/comment-page-1/#comment-713 D'log Sun, 16 Nov 2008 07:40:12 +0000 http://www.jonbounds.co.uk/?p=449#comment-713 I would wonder if, despite the growing active population of the net, such relatively-static sites actually have far bigger audiences than they did three years ago? But that the wash and swell of the social media tidal-wave makes them _seem_ as if they're getting covered up and ignored? But, if you're correct, then there are opportunities in such a situation for building new solutions for people who want to find only such information-rich and lovingly-tended websites. Several methods suggest themselves: 1) people learn to actually use keyphrases and search-engines in a deep and disciplined way (instead of seeing Google as a "magic oracle" they just type two words into, and the answer comes back in the top-three results); 2) niche hand-built search-engines (http://www.intute.ac.uk springs to mind immediately) which are properly funded as a public service; 3) new forms of aggregation of links to intelligent content (perhaps via the likes of Yahoo Pipes, etc), including from guilds of same-subject bloggers; 4) Google has shown itself able to create popular and useful subset searches such as Google Scholar, so why not a 'Google Deep' or a 'Google Sparkle' for searching only the best-of-the-web? I would wonder if, despite the growing active population of the net, such relatively-static sites actually have far bigger audiences than they did three years ago? But that the wash and swell of the social media tidal-wave makes them _seem_ as if they’re getting covered up and ignored?

But, if you’re correct, then there are opportunities in such a situation for building new solutions for people who want to find only such information-rich and lovingly-tended websites. Several methods suggest themselves: 1) people learn to actually use keyphrases and search-engines in a deep and disciplined way (instead of seeing Google as a “magic oracle” they just type two words into, and the answer comes back in the top-three results); 2) niche hand-built search-engines (http://www.intute.ac.uk springs to mind immediately) which are properly funded as a public service; 3) new forms of aggregation of links to intelligent content (perhaps via the likes of Yahoo Pipes, etc), including from guilds of same-subject bloggers; 4) Google has shown itself able to create popular and useful subset searches such as Google Scholar, so why not a ‘Google Deep’ or a ‘Google Sparkle’ for searching only the best-of-the-web?

]]> By: Dave Harte http://www.jonbounds.co.uk/blog/449/the-hinternet-the-internet-were-missing/comment-page-1/#comment-711 Dave Harte Sat, 15 Nov 2008 23:15:51 +0000 http://www.jonbounds.co.uk/?p=449#comment-711 Is what happened when we went digging for <a href="http://www.createdinbirmingham.com/2008/01/22/phyllis-nicklins-60s-birmingham/" rel="nofollow">Phyllis Nicklin's photos</a> a good example of the social web in action? Here were amazing photos that were rediscovered, put on the web and then kind of lost again. The old web put them behind a barrier and prevented access, something the social web prizes most of all. The link on the CIB story needs updating. This is the one that works (for me at least): http://62.105.110.193/extras/public.bhtml?library=10032 Dave Is what happened when we went digging for Phyllis Nicklin’s photos a good example of the social web in action? Here were amazing photos that were rediscovered, put on the web and then kind of lost again. The old web put them behind a barrier and prevented access, something the social web prizes most of all.

The link on the CIB story needs updating. This is the one that works (for me at least):

http://62.105.110.193/extras/public.bhtml?library=10032

Dave

]]> By: Julia Gilbert http://www.jonbounds.co.uk/blog/449/the-hinternet-the-internet-were-missing/comment-page-1/#comment-710 Julia Gilbert Sat, 15 Nov 2008 23:12:53 +0000 http://www.jonbounds.co.uk/?p=449#comment-710 Just found this site on the hinternet http://www.onlinejones.co.uk/ I would never have found it but for a link on his Flickr profile page. Just found this site on the hinternet http://www.onlinejones.co.uk/

I would never have found it but for a link on his Flickr profile page.

]]> By: Pete Ashton http://www.jonbounds.co.uk/blog/449/the-hinternet-the-internet-were-missing/comment-page-1/#comment-708 Pete Ashton Sat, 15 Nov 2008 22:33:32 +0000 http://www.jonbounds.co.uk/?p=449#comment-708 (Note to self - read the last paragraph before commenting...) (Note to self – read the last paragraph before commenting…)

]]> By: Pete Ashton http://www.jonbounds.co.uk/blog/449/the-hinternet-the-internet-were-missing/comment-page-1/#comment-707 Pete Ashton Sat, 15 Nov 2008 22:32:47 +0000 http://www.jonbounds.co.uk/?p=449#comment-707 The term Hinterweb was coined a few years back but not in this context. http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2005/06/life_on_the_hin.html I like your thinking here, though I do think these lost sites can be saved by linking to them from sites like BiNS. The term Hinterweb was coined a few years back but not in this context.

http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2005/06/life_on_the_hin.html

I like your thinking here, though I do think these lost sites can be saved by linking to them from sites like BiNS.

]]> By: theaardvark http://www.jonbounds.co.uk/blog/449/the-hinternet-the-internet-were-missing/comment-page-1/#comment-706 theaardvark Sat, 15 Nov 2008 22:30:01 +0000 http://www.jonbounds.co.uk/?p=449#comment-706 And bloggers can play a huge part in raising the profile by writing and posting about these sites as they find them. The posts should provide a well ranked, permanent sign post to the "less optimised" sites. And bloggers can play a huge part in raising the profile by writing and posting about these sites as they find them. The posts should provide a well ranked, permanent sign post to the “less optimised” sites.

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